Friday, October 31, 2008

De Menezes 'was killed without warning'

Witnesses who were on the tube train on which Jean Charles De Menezes was shot have contradicted police claims that they verbally issued the warning "armed police" before firing.

Both of the policemen who shot De Menezes have claimed in court that they shouted this before they fired, but the witnesses who watched as De Menezes was killed say that the police issued no warning at all before they shot him. Their evidence seems to strengthen Michael Mansfield's claim that the police have "embellished", "exaggerated" and "lied" in their telling of what took place that fateful day.

Ralph Livock and his girlfriend Rachel Wilson were sitting opposite Mr de Menezes, 27, in the Tube carriage at Stockwell station in south London on 22 July, the inquest heard. Mr Livock recalled that the train was held up at the station, when four men, casually dressed and carrying guns, got on board and shot Mr de Menezes seven times in the head at point blank range. Asked by Nicholas Hilliard QC, counsel to the inquest, whether the men had said anything about being police officers before opening fire, Mr Livock said: "No, certainly not.

"And I remember that specifically because one of the conversations that Rachel and I had afterwards was that we had no idea whether these were police, whether they were terrorists, whether they were somebody else. We just had no idea."

When Mr Hilliard asked Ms Wilson, "Did you ever hear anybody shout 'armed police'?", she answered, "If I had heard that, I would have thought they were police, so no". Asked the same question later, she again insisted that no one had shouted "armed police" adding: "That's one of the things I recall the most – the silence."

The couple said they initially thought the officers were pranksters playing a game. Mr Livock said: "One of my initial thoughts was it was all a game and they were a group of lads who were just having a laugh – a very bad taste laugh, but just having a game on the Tube, because they were just dressed in jeans and T-shirts but with firearms. The thing that made me realise it wasn't a group of lads playing around or something else happening was when the first shot was fired." Ms Wilson added: "I thought they were messing around. Then I thought they were terrorists and it was only when I left the carriage and somebody moved me gently out of the way that I figured they must be good guys. Apart from that, I just didn't know who they were."

And then there is their description of De Menezes's actions:

Mr Livock described the moments just before Mr de Menezes was killed. "He looked as if he was expecting somebody to say something but he didn't look frightened," he said. "He looked as if he was waiting for somebody to tell him what was going on."

But no-one told him what was going on. Instead, they shot him through the head. Executed him on the spot.

The police have given many tales that De Menezes came towards them, that if he hadn't done so he would never have been shot, but that's not what comes from the evidence of the witnesses on the train.

"He looked like he was waiting for someone to tell him what was going on". "As if he was expecting somebody to say something." It sounds as if he simply couldn't have been any more passive.

Then there's the strange uniformity of the police statements:

Delta9 (firearms officer): "I could hear people shouting 'armed police'"

Ken (surveillance officer): "I heard 'armed police' shouted loudly"

Ivor (surveillance officer): "I could hear shouting"

Geoff (surveillance officer): "I then heard shouting from the direction of the open doors which included the word 'police'"

C5 (firearms officer): "I heard shouts of 'armed police'"

C12 (one of the two firearms officers who shot Mr de Menezes): "I did challenge 'armed police'"

C2 (the other firearms officer who shot Mr de Menezes): "I shouted 'armed police' and I held my handgun to the head of the subject and I fired"

Somebody, somewhere, is not telling the truth.

Click title for full article.

4 comments:

Ingrid said...

go see Alex Jones's site about it..there's a tip to a very huge iceberg..so big it's hard to fathom..at least the couple got to tell their story..this world has been taking a turn for the worst and I do not think Obama will be able to stop this I'm afraid..

sigh

Ingrid

Kel said...

I'll pop over and have a look.

And if Obama can bring about even half of what he promises the world will be a much better place.

Alex Fear said...

Hello Kel,

It's about time the truth started to get out. I never believed the official police or media account when certain witnesses were coming forward to say he had a heavy brown winter jacket on and "wires sticking out".

The Met police have shamefully and barefaced tried to obfuscate and bury this incident from day 1.

Mr De Menzes reputation has been dragged through various incarnations of a rapist, drug user, illegal immigrant (overstayed visa) and such with the complicit help of evil publications like The Sun.

We have had dark days in the last 5 years with the political and authoritarian spin machine and though I may sound like a conspiraloon there are far too many questions and nefarious subplots going on around our government and that of the US.

Someone should lose their job- possibly go to prison over De Menezes, unfortunately I think all that will come out of this inquiry is a fine at the most.

Lastly, I hope the worst for Cressida Prick.

She has openly admitted that this could happen again, and with the same forked tongue has the gall to defend their actions and say that there was no way it could be prevented, no lessons learned, no changes to policy.

And it requires a change of government policy that's for sure. The announcement of a shoot-to-kill policy came in the form of a bullet through one of our own heads ('one of our own' as in 'innocent civilian').

Policies like this should not be made in secret and I find it shocking that Tony Blair, Ken Livingstone and Ian Blair are not all sitting in jail now awaiting sentencing. Gordon Brown of course may not have been the man to order this policy but he is also complicit in that he allows it to now continue.. just as he allows the Iraq war to continue.

And watch for the announcement of troop withdrawal from someone with balls like Obama, will Brown then follow and withdraw our own?

Someone in the Met needs to lose their head for this, otherwise it could be any one of us travelling the tube one day.. best not to go on any foreign holidays and risk getting a tan!

[/rant]

Sorry but De Menezes the whole thing just makes my blood boil- I'm so angry with the people who did this and have got away with it.

Kel said...

Hi Alex,

The Cressida line that this could happen again is an attempt to hide the fact that this need never have happened in the first place. Had an armed unit stopped De Menezes outside his home they could have ascertained there and then whether or not he was a threat.

It is the fact that the armed unit was not in position which led to this young man's death. And they are lying when they say they warned him. They didn't. By the time he got on the train they felt it was too late so they assassinated him.

The Israelis could have told them how such situations are handled. This was an amateur cock up from start to finish. And I agree that very little will come out of this enquiry and that Brown will follow suit when Obama withdraws from Iraq, but not before.