Saturday, July 21, 2007

Rules Lay Out C.I.A.’s Tactics in Questioning

Glenn Greenwald this morning highlights the US condemnation of Russia's human rights abuses in a 2001 report. Amongst the condemnations are the following:

Article 21 of the Constitution prohibits torture, violence, and other brutal or humiliating treatment or punishment; however, there are credible reports that law enforcement personnel regularly use torture to coerce confessions from suspects and that the Government does not hold most of the torturers accountable for their actions.

There were credible reports that Government and separatist forces in Chechnya tortured detainees. There are also claims of abuse of psychiatry by authorities.
There is a terrible irony to Greenwald pointing out this report on the very day that the White House have given the CIA permission to resume its use of some severe interrogation methods for questioning terrorism suspects in secret prisons overseas.

It would appear that the CIA are now being given permission to engage in the very actions that the 2001 report routinely condemned.

A new executive order signed by President Bush does not authorize the full set of harsh interrogation methods used by the C.I.A. since the program began in 2002. But government officials said the rules would still allow some techniques more severe than those used in interrogations by military personnel in places like the detention center in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

The White House order brought condemnation on Friday from human rights groups, which argued that it helped systematize a program of indefinite, incommunicado detention and used methods that violated international law. But in a message to agency employees on Friday, Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the C.I.A. director, defended the program as having been “irreplaceable,” though he said extraordinary techniques had been used on fewer than half of about 100 terrorism suspects.

Of course, we don't know the specifics of the techniques used as the details remain classified, but we are at least now promised that waterboarding is no longer to be admitted. And the order does now include a definition of “humiliating and degrading treatment” which accords with international law, an obvious victory for the state department.

But it is very clear that, although the banning of waterboarding is a victory of sorts, that the people who are defining whether or not what they do constitutes torture are a set of people with an incredibly lax approach towards their adherence to the Geneva Conventions. Not only has this administration refused to define waterboarding as torture, it has a Vice President who has gone as far as to describe waterboarding as "a dunk in the water".

So the problem remains that the Bush administration, who are so quick to point out what they consider torture when they are describing the acts of the Kremlin, refuse to even discuss the methods that they are using. Although they do precede their techniques with the word, "extraordinary" interrogation techniques.

Earlier this year, State Department officials rejected a draft of the executive order because they believed that the language was too permissive and could open the Bush administration to challenges from American allies that the White House was legalizing methods that approach torture. Some Bush administration officials, including members of Vice President Dick Cheney’s staff, pushed for a more expansive interpretation of Geneva Convention language and for interrogation methods that the C.I.A. had not even requested.

According to one senior intelligence official, nearly half of the source material used in the recent National Intelligence Estimate on the terrorism threat to the United States came from C.I.A. interrogations of detainees.

Some human rights groups said they feared that the Bush administration was using creative legal reasoning to justify practices that close American allies have banned.

“This is an administration that won’t even publicly denounce waterboarding,” said John Sifton, a lawyer at Human Rights Watch. “It’s hard to believe that they will be interpreting these standards in a way that is true to the spirit of the Military Commissions Act.”

But other critics of the harsh C.I.A. interrogation practices of the past, including former top Bush administration officials, said that the executive order was a step in the right direction. “The U.S. government is continuing to move toward an approach to this vital area of human intelligence collection that is more sustainable — morally, politically, and legally,” said Philip D. Zelikow, who served as counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice until last year and who delivered a blistering lecture earlier this year denouncing the C.I.A.’s interrogation program as it was used in the past.

There can be no great surprise that there - at the forefront, demanding even more appalling techniques than the CIA had requested - is the Prince of Darkness himself, Dick Cheney. There are no words to describe the contempt in which I hold that draft dodging, war-mongering, scoundrel. And it is nice to know that some small victory has been achieved against this slug.

However, even Zelikow concedes that the US government are "continuing to move toward an approach to this vital area of human intelligence collection that is more sustainable — morally, politically, and legally". Please note that, according to Zelikow, a proper moral, legal and politically sustainable position is something that this administration are merely "moving towards", he does not claim that they are there yet. And, as John Sifton points out, we are still reliant on the opinions of an administration that refuses to condemn waterboarding as illegal, that what they are doing does not constitute torture.

What's interesting, and I really do suggest you read the report that Greenwald has come across, is that this administration - who condemned Russia for having equipment which enabled "the [Foreign Security Service] to monitor Internet traffic, telephone calls, and pagers without judicial approval" - has not, in so many areas, come up to the same set of standards that they demanded of Russia in 2001. I mean, it's simply a bad fucking joke to read the administration who today operate Guantanamo Bay deriding the Russian's because, "lengthy pretrial detention remained a serious problem".

This is an administration that has failed to live up to the standards it has set for others, so - whilst I'll welcome the banning of waterboarding - I won't take them at their word that they no longer torture, until they specify exactly which acts they consider torture and which acts they don't.

They've given themselves far too much rope on this issue in the past to be taken at their word now.

Click title for full article.

8 comments:

Unknown said...

Plenty I could comment on, but I'll stick with the most glaring falsehood for now:

There are no words to describe the contempt in which I hold that draft dodging, war-mongering, scoundrel.

One thing I have a hard time with is people who would never accept service and express general disdain for the military, trying to loosely throw terms like this around, and even worse apply them wrongly. Wikipedia has a proper definition for draft dodging:

A draft dodger, draft evader or draft resister, is a person who avoids ("dodges") or otherwise violates the conscription policies of the nation in which he or she is a citizen or resident, by leaving the country, going into hiding, attempting to fraudulently obtain conscientious objector status, or by open resistance (civil disobedience).

Cheney did not violate US conscription policies. That's a plain and simple fact. The pieces of shit who were drafted and then fled or failed to report, forcing others to take their place, are draft dodgers.

The popular liberal misapplication of this term is yet another example of their attempts to use an institution which they consistently express disdain towards (the military) when it suits their purposes. For those of us who actually have served and hold the institution in the high regards it deserves, this is contemptible.

Kel said...

Firstly, when have I been disparaging of the military? I have great respect for the military (especially as my godson serves in the British military and has served in Iraq). What I object to is the policy which sent them there in the first place. So, you are very misguided when you say I disparage them and if you can point out where I do so please do.

And why did you chose the Wikepedia definition of draft dodger? There are surely others? Indeed, I'd say Wikepedia is one of the least reliable you could have chosen as people get to write it themselves!

Dictionary.com has: "a person who evades or attempts to evade compulsory military service."

And yes, Cheney - who loves to send other people's kids to die in oil wars for Halliburton - did "evade compulsory military service". He may well have done it within the rules, but he dodged the draft for the very reason that he avoided serving at a time when working class kids were being sent off to fight. Just as Clinton did.

Oh, and as for your last little diatribe, I find it contemptible that you accuse me of disparaging the armed forces when I have never ever done so. I may disagree with the policy that sent them there, but I do not hold them responsible for that policy. They are merely following orders.

Unknown said...

More later, I'm running out the door now... I was going off on the popular liberal misapplication of the term (which you share), and the fact that many of the liberal extremists have a general disdain for the military. I did not mean to imply you specifically but I can see how it would seem like that since I provided little context.

Kel said...

Enjoy your night, Jason!

I'm glad you cleared my non-involvement in that up!

Unknown said...

especially as my godson serves in the British military and has served in Iraq

I find this odd given your public proclamations on the war. Support for your godson would mean supporting the successful execution of his mission. You clearly do not support the successful execution of the military mission, based on past statements.

And why did you chose the Wikepedia definition of draft dodger?

It was probably the first one the search engine returned, and knowing what the definition was already, I found that one to be suitably precise.

a person who evades or attempts to evade compulsory military service

Military service is not compulsory until you are actually drafted, as this definition correctly points out. Once drafted and faced with compulsory military service, evading that service is then draft dodging. Cheney was never drafted and therefore is not a draft dodger.

He may well have done it within the rules

Then it's not draft dodging, as I have indicated above.

I find it contemptible that you accuse me of disparaging the armed forces when I have never ever done so.

You have not, however you did highlight an article recently whose aim was to disparage the armed forces.

Kel said...

Support for your godson would mean supporting the successful execution of his mission. You clearly do not support the successful execution of the military mission, based on past statements.

No, support for my godson is praying that he comes home alive and well, it is not incumbent upon me to support an invasion which I regard as illegal and immoral simply because my family is involved. And, I should point out that this was also the position held by both of his parents. His involvement and his decision to sign up at a time when it was obvious he would be sent to Iraq is one that we all respected without agreeing with. He's a big enough boy to make his own mind up and he did so knowing what we all felt.

And whilst he and I had many heated discussions about this before he went there, he came back firmly opposed to the conflict which he now regards as simply "a mess" to use his own words.

And as for your defintion of draft dodging, I simply think you are playing semantics Jason. At a time when it was compulsory for people to go to war, both Clinton, Cheney and others found a way to avoid that civic responsiblity whilst others were sent - against their will in some cases - to fight. To me that's draft dodging. And I reckon that Wikepedia definition was written by someone with views similar to your own for precisely this kind of argument. It's worthless semantics. They dodged the draft and I don't care how they did it, it's still dodging.

You have not, however you did highlight an article recently whose aim was to disparage the armed forces.

An article which interviewed 50 ex-soldiers who wanted to express their opinion of the war. Telling the truth is not denigrating the armed forces, it is simply telling the truth.

Unknown said...

No, support for my godson is praying that he comes home alive and well, it is not incumbent upon me to support an invasion which I regard as illegal and immoral simply because my family is involved.

Don't you think that's a bit selfish? "Gee guys I think you being over there is a crime and I hope you're driven from the country in disgrace, but while I pray for your defeat, I hope you don't get killed." Is this the kind of support you think the military wants?

I simply think you are playing semantics Jason.

Uh no, I'm telling giving you the definition of a draft dodger. I'm sorry it doesn't mean what you'd like it to.

At a time when it was compulsory for people to go to war

I don't think you understand the US selective service. Service was only compulsory if you were selected (hence the name selective service).

An article which interviewed 50 ex-soldiers who wanted to express their opinion of the war. Telling the truth is not denigrating the armed forces, it is simply telling the truth.

First, the article did not relate the accounts of fifty people. Second, it's not hard to find 50 people from among hundreds of thousands who have gone who are willing to provide the author the kind of material he was looking for, particularly when he sought out multiple anti-war groups in his search. Third, I maintain that the purpose the article was written was to disparage the service of US military personnel by cherry-picking a handful of unsubstantiated events. I am not even questioning the veracity of the statements made by those interviewed, merely the motivations of the article's author. I wonder if the author spoke with the same "Scott Thomas" who the New Republic has been speaking with for their "Shock Troops" article that has been all over the blogosphere and news recently.

Kel said...

Don't you think that's a bit selfish? "Gee guys I think you being over there is a crime and I hope you're driven from the country in disgrace, but while I pray for your defeat, I hope you don't get killed." Is this the kind of support you think the military wants?

Have I to abandon all principle and support what I regard as an illegal and immoral war simply because it's "my side" that's waging it? I happen to think international law is more important - and will ultimately save more lives and avoid more conflicts - if people stick to their principles and stand up when they think their country is in the wrong. This is an army, it should not be supported like a baseball team.

Uh no, I'm telling giving you the definition of a draft dodger. I'm sorry it doesn't mean what you'd like it to.

No, you gave the Wikepedia definition written by a member of the public. The Collins dictionary, which I have in front of me states: "Draft dodger: One who evades compulsory military service". It does not include the caveats added by the person who wrote the Wikepedia entry, lets not flatter it and call it a definition.

Service was only compulsory if you were selected

And Cheney went out of his way to make sure that didn't happen. He applied for and received four 2-S draft deferments whilst a student, he then married Lynne 22 days after Congress approved the Gulf of Tonkin resolution and, when he was classified as 1-A "available for military service" and the constraints on the drafting of childless married men was lifted, he and Lynne had a child; nine months and two days after the constraints on childless married were lifted!

He then immediately applied for a 3-A classification, whilst his wife was in the earliest stages of her pregnancy. This is a guy who was going to considerable lengths to avoid conscription. Scrambling around trying to dodge it I'd say.

I am not even questioning the veracity of the statements made by those interviewed, merely the motivations of the article's author.

You really would ask that we behave like Germans during WWII and simply applaud the military's every action, wouldn't you? You demand that I lie about what I feel about the war in order to show my support for a campaign that my nephew knows I disapprove of. And now you would label any investigative journalism into how the war is actually being conducted as "denigrating the armed forces".

What kind of journalism would make you happy? Pravda?

It appears to me Jason that when you ask for "support" you are actually asking for a form of blind allegiance, where we suppress what we feel and what we report in the service of the Mother Country. It borders on the Bill O'Reilly version of freedom where, you can think what you want, but when our country goes to war... you shut up!